Dear Torben,
I’ve checked back to your webpage a few times over the past months. I’ve followed the links and I’ve read. And it comes to me to write to you again, though I honestly admit to not knowing ‘why’. I often don’t know the ‘why’, when the inspiration moves me. It simply does and I accept it. I learned long ago resistance is futile. It merely wears me out.
First, let me say I haven’t read a thing I wouldn’t agree with concerning the people in question. However, my response would be different. Waging a battle of negation over whose view of Reality is going to dominate over the other IS the “old energy” pattern.
Some of us claim to be a victim of a certain person, while that certain person claims to be a victim of some of us…ALL at the same time! Excuse me for being so bold as to say it sure looks like two ends of the same rubber band to me. A pot, calling a kettle black and vice versa. It has “Victim” written all over it.
Sure, investments and expectations don’t exactly match with Reality. Notice anything in common with the rest of the World? ALL our personal Kingdoms based on illusions are unraveling.
Signaling it’s time to get Real.
A “donation” is one thing. A “shareholder investment” is another. I wonder which one it was? Usually when I buy shares, my check is exchanged for Stock Certificates. If the company has no legal certificates to exchange for my check, then I wait for them to satisfy all the legal and financial requirements, according to all rules and regulations. Let them prove themselves fit for public investment before asking for it.
Who are you really mad at?
So long we see ourselves as victims, we will feel helpless and will be lost, without understanding. Admitting to being gullible and ignorant is empowering, because we, personally, can DO something about it.
If a man comes and knocks on my front door, promising me if I give him $500, he’ll turn it into $5000, I’m going to ask for his client list. I’m going to demand proof before I hand any money over to him.
Especially, if it’s anyone of us claiming to be any kind of ‘spiritual teacher’, who hasn’t even so much as yet claimed responsibility for emotion. I’ve been observing responses towards one another. And I haven’t noticed a great deal of any discernable difference when it comes to expressing quality of spiritual substance of character. It’s a competition of who has been the biggest victim of whom. Who is best when it comes to using a whip of Guilt.
“Mea copa, mea copa, mea maxima copa”, “through my fault, through my fault¸ through my great fault”…
“New energy” pattern says:
You bet I’m [[[[[[G U I L T Y]]]]]]]. I freely admit it. I Am Human. I make mistakes. I’ve told myself lies and believed them myself, which made them feel like truth I was selling to others. Who hasn’t?
And how we respond to the human in all of us is what distinguishes a ‘spiritual teacher’. What is our Standard of Value? Perfection? Or the ability to embrace ~imperfection~?
I “stand behind the short wall” but it doesn’t mean I need be silent.
“I Am God Also”…the phrase has been used as some sort of claim, kinda’ like credit. ‘Credit” is a way of saying “I believe in you”. Well, I’m the sort that already knows it doesn’t matter one whit how many people believe in us. It only matters how much we believe in ourselves.
So from now on, I’m going to respond to all claims of “I Am God Also” with:
“That may be but has yet been proved.”
Sue Ann Edwards
tumel
and in re-reading this time I found...
Surface Earth
August 15th, 2009 - 2:11 pm
Hi Sue Ann,
I have read your comments on someone else blog who has decided a few months ago to quit his family, for a better life in the name of New Age coming (another kind of religion?). I found generally your comments interesting. Usually they all make me think how similar the comments and appreciation of life you give are more or less orientated in the same direction of what I have understood as groowing in my christian faith and my understanding of God. However, most comments against christian people from people who have blog like yours and who have embrassed a “so-called” new age, are about prescriptions/obligations/no-freedom etc. What I have always understood as part of my growing is to separate the part which is human and the part which comes from God. I have suffered, in the church and outside the church, from people mistakes and misunderstand. This sufferance has made me stronger in my relationship with God and my dependance on listening to Him. One of the most common comments I have heard from an ex-christian is that the church has done this to me, the church has done that to me, christians people are not following what they say (nor this persone did as he/she as a christian before) etc. Usually, I found out, it comes from people who had never had to fight for their point of view, their belief, or their position in their society. Suddendly, one day they have some problems and they can’t cope with it or are hurt by what is happening, so they blame the church or whatever spiritual teacher they had, or their partner. What they don’t say it is what God did to them. All these years of carrying, forgiving, understanding, supporting, all these experiences they have been through with God, and God alone, are annihilated and rendered to Null. All these good things they have heard, in the church (yes, yes in there) seems to have been forgotten, and there is no place for Thank You, but only blame. You say just in one of your post that we are all humans and we make mistakes, full of imperfection, and I certainly agree with you. I also think we are from the past as well as the present to become the future, so we cannot avoid our past it has build up us and our way of thinking (mind you if the bases were not solid, they surely have not last a long time). You speak a lot about being true, to be one, to be in God (I won’t say however being God, because for me God is perfect and I am still not quite there!). I have also believed lies that I told myself in order to cope with life or to refuse the reality. Selling truth is an interesting concept (and we all do it, even the one who think strongly they don’t sell anything, a blog is a way of selling somehting), I don’t think it is possible to do it. You cannot convince truly people about truth, they convince themselves. And this is what my christian faith tells me, I am part of sharing the truth (God) with others, but it is only the Holy Spirit that can convince them. So I am quite angry with people who have been christians and changing their mind (this part is ok for me,m they can don whatever they want, it is their life) they put all their past and experiences in a rubbish bin. And then they take themselves the first stone and bombard the church, Jesus, christianity, you name it and forget about all the truth they have learnt all along these years; and do exactly what they are complaining about christians and how christians behave. Their problem is not God, it is themselves and the understanding they have about God, they have mixed up imperfection of human being with God, with the expectation that people around them should be as perfect as God. This is nothing to do with following Christ and his teaching, this is putting your faith on human beings (and any beliefs is the same as soon as you imply some sort of human impact, you have lost it). Last but not least, I have never been happy as soon as I concentrate too much on my little belly buttom. The syndrom of “All about me” is a killer. I have read a few of these blogs where people talk about new life, being freed, making free choices, etc. Everything is around Me, Me, and Me only. Very limited vision of the world. I have no idea if this is what you are doing yourself, but for me I cannot see how you can link the “All about me” with the God, there is a huge difference of dimension.
Happy reading
(NB.: it is really annoying to right you a response and to have your links on the right hand side poping every time the mousse pass through, are you left handed?)
August 16th, 2009 - 3:44 am
Whew! That was a LOT.
Feel better?
First let me say that the popups are Wordpress.org’s doing and so long as my blog is hosted on their server, they code things their way. I don’t happen to like them, either. Nor do I like the automatically generated posts that might be related. I do, however, express Tolerance and Acceptance, in Appreciation and Gratitude for the service that is freely offered.
Next let me mention that we be Honest, shall we? Let us agree to value Truth.
And the Truth is you were not happy when you wrote your comment and anyone else being happy as they read it couldn’t be further from your genuine intent. You’re hurt, you’re wounded and your run-on is/was an attempt to extend that unhappiness to others. You already know in your own heart most people won’t even bother reading through it.
“Selling truth is an interesting concept (and we all do it, even the one who think strongly they don’t sell anything, a blog is a way of selling somehting)”
Selling something on this blog? Notice any ads? Notice any requests for donations? It’s called Freedom of Self Expression. I share ideas. I also specifically mention not to just simply believe me but to check with the Voice of the Presence within each of our hearts. Unlike a lot of blogs I have no liking for either, in addition to many of us who call ourselves spiritual teachers or authorities and, that includes all Pastors, Priests, Popes and Gurus, I have absolutely NO desire for any kind of “following”. Claiming responsibility for our own beliefs is a prerequisite for me.
What I share is to our own hearts be True. To listen to the Voice of the Presence that exists there, within each and every single one of our hearts. To NOT surrender to any outer kind of authority. To quit looking to other people to tell us what to believe.
You don’t like “about me” and I don’t like “about me” either. That’s why I clearly state that it is not “about me”. It is not about what other people are going to think about me. And it’s not about how other people are going to feel about me. Other people’s thoughts and feelings are other people’s responsibility.
I’ve got enough on my hands just being Responsible and Accountable for the ideas I choose to entertain in my mind, as well as, how I have related those ideas together AND the resultant emotional states that are caused by thinking those ideas in that particular way, to be REMOTELY interested in being a dupe for those of us lacking in these areas of self governing.
“However, most comments against christian people from people who have blog like yours…”
I am not, nor anywhere in this blog have I expressed, being “against Christian people”.
Presenting an alternate and expanded understanding of the Teachings of Christ, does not qualify as being “against Christian people”. Also notice I use a capital “C” when I spell it? The reason I do, is because the word “Christian” actually means “Christ-like” linguistically, so I give Christ the respect of a Pronoun.
“most comments… who have embraced a “so-called” new age, are about prescriptions/obligations/no-freedom etc.”
There’s another comment further on…
“Usually, I found out, it comes from people who had never had to fight for their point of view, their belief, or their position in their society.”
No one has ever had to fight for their point of view. No one has ever had to fight for their beliefs. We are free to have any perspective or point of view we choose. We are also free to believe as we will.
Fighting only occurs when agreement and support for those points of view or beliefs are not forthcoming.
When one person’s will attempts to overpower or control another’s. When compliance through the use of some kind of force, like emotional manipulation through the use of blame and guilt for ‘hurt’ feelings that has been so aptly presented in your comment.
When there is a veritable lack of Respect for another individual as BEING ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL, much less genuine Love for that individual, all in favor of being made a slave to other people’s emotional needs.
This was not the way of Christ/
Liberty is the freedom of choice while being responsible for the costs and consequences of those choices. License is the supposed freedom of choice while denying responsibility for the costs of the consequences.
And that’s what most ‘Christians” don’t like hearing. For I grant no religious license here.
There is a great deal of difference between a religion about Christ and the religion OF Christ. Just as there is a great deal of difference between saying we believe in a “brotherhood of Man” and actually having the self discipline and unconditional love for humanity required to be a member of it.
Most of our religions have been based on a false concept of Love. The “love” that has been taught is ENTIRELY conditional, which makes it NEED, not love. An emotional lack, not Love’s extension. Fulfill all the conditions and love and acceptance are offered. Don’t fulfill all the conditions and love and acceptance are denied. This is bartering for affection and the role of an emotional prostitute.
Only Unconditional Love is an Immaculate Concept. Which is the standard Christ exemplified and expressed.
Actually read your comment. Take an inventory of the Understanding, Tolerance, Acceptance and Patience expressed. Then ask yourself why anyone else would choose to live by the same standards of lack.
And as for “position in society”, that’s called “status” and it indicates a code of value that is plastic, superficial, shallow and materialistic. As well as, being for the sole purpose of elevating some individuals at other individuals’ expense.
If we choose to call ourselves “Christians”, then I suggest we be prepared to back it up with genuine qualities and substance of character. In other words, put up or shut up.
We are free to live in a hell of our own making. We simply are not at Liberty to make any demands on others to live there with us.
I’m sure since you’re such a good “Christian” you’ve heard of “reaping and sowing”. Well, so called “Christians” have been sowing the seeds of religious prejudice, religious bias, religious ideas of supremacy, and religious arrogance, in ways that have been judgmental and condemning. And if those same “Christians” are now experiencing those same attitudes of judgment, condemnation and rejection, then that’s what called “Justice”.
The Universe’s kind of Justice. God’s kind of Justice.
Doesn’t feel very Loving does it? That’s because it ISN’T and never has been. There is NOTHING “Christ-like” about attitudes of judgment and condemnation, nor in the character traits of prejudice, bias and arrogance.
Sometimes payback is a ~bitch~.
As for the Past, the reason it is called the “Past” is because it doesn’t exist any longer. Welcome to the “end of the world as a lot of us know it”.
August 16th, 2009 - 2:55 pm
Thank you for your answer.
You are right about the fact I was not in my right mood. One way of trying to understand a situation that hurt me is to write (shall we say speaking aloud). And you just happen to be that ear I needed. You took a great deal of your time to answer me and I appreciate. I understand all your thinking process and it was very clearly explained, except for the “sometimes payback…” at the end.
The only rectification I have to make is about me being “a good Christian” no one can judge this if it is not God himself. So I will know personally this when He will tell it to me, and only me.
About the selling part. I was not thinking about money. As English is not my first language I might have used the wrong word. Sorry about that, in my mind it was not about money, but in my way of thinking the fact that when you make public your own ideas or anything else, you are somehow selling something even if it is free. But I might be completely wrong here.
I haven’t say you were against Christians. I say that people who have blogs that treated the same kind of topic than yours.
About “the hell we are ourself making”, do you really think we are so free from others, or the situations we are living in? I really understand it in theory, practically I also have taken steps in my life.
I will think about the “past” it is really a different idea from my own thinking and the anthropological formation I have had as well as my linguistic job.
Thank you for the long answer. I will probably read your blog every so on. However I am unsure I will write again, not because I don’t want to know what your answers, it is because I think you are actually doing a good job about explaining your thinking that does not need any other comments.
August 17th, 2009 - 4:02 pm
Smiling…
I know how we are. All of us. Every single one of us. On the inside, we’re all alike.
We have the same worries. We have the same fears, the same doubts, the same need to feel loved and appreciated.
We also all act and react the same when we are wounded or feeling threatened. It’s like being lost in a forest and not being able to find our way out because of all the trees.
I am Honored you found your way to my symbolic ‘door’, for I have been lost in that same forest many times and, know better then to run into the same forest with you. Then we would both be lost!
There were many layers in your message but I could not write of deeper layers until we got through the first one. You needed to express yourself. You needed to be heard, you needed someone to listen.
However you got here, you found me.
I’m an oddball (eccentric), I know that. I just don’t consider myself a “bad” sort of oddball. For what makes me odd, is that I actually believe every single one of Us is precious.
No conditions.
Not precious because we especially do anything. Not precious because we’re especially good (or bad) for that matter.
Simply precious because we are. It is part of our Nature as human beings. Most of us simply don’t think so.
You’ve shared your life with me. You’ve shared yourself. In so doing, you’ve made my life richer because now it has ~you~ in it!
See what you did? The reality of me, not knowing you, is all over. There is no way I can “not know” you now. Not knowing you is a thing of the past. I can’t go back there. That reality is gone. It doesn’t exist anymore.
The study of anthropology and archaeology is essentially the study of what is left behind, which is our dust and bones. What’s a thing of the past, are the living, breathing, feeling human beings that once lived there and then.
If we didn’t consider their view and experience of life precious and of value, and worth knowing, then we wouldn’t be studying those subjects, would we? So why can’t we treat each other that way while we’re alive?
Communication is a two-way conversation. I express myself and you express yourself. If we don’t each share our ideas and what’s on our mind, then where’s the communication?
You asked great questions. You shared great insight. We just needed to get past the sharpness of the pain, in order to look beyond it.
You shared it yourself. You know how many times suffering has been part of the growth of your Soul. You told me; I didn’t tell you. I simply know how to recognize it. Because I’ve been there myself.
Well…take a look at it. Doesn’t this situation have all the symptoms of being one of those “growth experiences”?
When I write of the “hell’s of our own making”, very much am I recognizing how we are all connected and what we all share in common. I’m talking about our mental hells and our emotional hells that we live with everyday of our lives.
Because of our point of view and because of what we believe.
How many times in your life has the landscape changed and all you did was look at it different?
Most teachers realize that we learn though different methods. Some of us are visual and we learn through seeing. Some of us are audio and we learn through hearing. Have you ever considered that the “someone else” may yearn for that same inner communion that you know and enjoy so well? That maybe, the way of learning and understanding could be different for different people? If that be the case, what is most important? That the “someone else” discover that same communion or that they discover it only with us and through us?
You know by going through it so many times, that when we feel the most miserable are the times it is essential to hold onto our Faith. And by what you have shared, it is Faith that has carried you through. Can you hold that same Faith for another, especially when it may appear they have lost their way?
Everything you shared that you have observed about many so called “spiritual” blogs I would agree with. (I did happen to notice which of my posts you chose to comment upon.) Regurgitating the same attitudes of blame and rejection as those who are being accused and condemned. A pot, calling a kettle black.
The church is to blame. Mom is to blame. Dad is to blame. I didn’t get enough nurturing as a child. I didn’t get the right kind of nurturing as a child. No one understands me. I feel like I don’t belong.
The list of blame is endless.
Almost as long as the list of ways we seek to escape from dealing with our issues.
Those of us looking for our blaming to be supported don’t come to me. Because I don’t support a denial of Responsibility. We all make choices and these choices lead to consequences and results. If and when we begin to relate the consequence to the choice, then learning can begin on how to make Wise choices. And not until then. All blame does is retard learning and the correction of our mistakes.
The whole blame game needs to stop, the guilt trips along with them.
This what makes what I share different.
I’m not going to feel guilty for being human. I’m just not. I’m not going to be ungrateful for the Gift of Life I have been given. It’s like Solomon said:
“Crooked stick, straight stick, a stick is still a stick.”
Happy moment, miserable moment, each moment is a Present.
I learned that by coming real close to not having any Presents any longer. No matter how much pain I might happen to be in, I still celebrate the fact that I’m ALIVE to experience it.
I think the most glaring difference between me and a lot of us throughout the world is I don’t believe in a limited God. It simply doesn’t make any sense: a limited unlimited or an impotent omnipotence.
Honestly, if any character thought they could get away with punishing any of my children with torture for one of their mistakes or transgressions, it would be hard for me to resist getting out a shotgun loaded with rock salt. I’d have to whack such a character across the head with my cast iron skillet at the very least. I would not let any such disreputable character around my children. Much less imagine or believe this type of character as an Ideal or a God.
Christ said God was All and God was Love. All Powerful. Almighty. The One and Only!
Tell me, what’s “All That Is, Was and Will Ever Be” got to be jealous OF? What else is there besides “All That Is, Was and Will Ever Be”? And possessive, what’s that all about? What else is there TO possess besides “All That Is, Was and Will Ever Be”?
Something is really messed up with our Understanding. We’ve been out of our EVER Loving minds! Like I wrote, only Unconditional Love is an Immaculate Concept and what Christ expressed and exemplified.
Take notice of our responses to situations and people in our lives. Our responses TO Reality are the seeds we sow. And the harvest we reap, are those same responses directed back to us. The only way to win is to not play the game. To judge not. For “payback” will be all those judgments coming right back on us.
Christ gave an example of seeking to Understand instead of judging, condemning and rejecting. Seek to Understand why we feel and act the ways we do. For once we know and understand the causes, then we can DO something about healing our suffering and woe.
I know my blog isn’t easy to navigate; I’ve written a lot over time. But you may enjoy reading the posts under the tab “living light”. Here’s the link:
http://sueannedwards.wordpress.com/living-light/
Please feel free to comment anywhere and anytime!
You know where to find me…
Sue Ann
August 22nd, 2009 - 10:26 am
I hear you !
The hole reason why I set up the webpage was my souls wanting.
My soul directed me to expose crimsoncircle for who ever was or is interested in knowing my point of perception.
My work is done. I have learned my lesons and moving on.
But if you see it as being a despute or fight or wictimnees, that is your point of perception.
The best to you on your path.
Kind regards
Torben Hansen
August 22nd, 2009 - 11:46 am
I applaud your Courage of expression Torben, for speaking up. It’s about time someone did who has been involved!
Our lessons in discernment continue…
So long as we’re not claiming Sovereignty over our Reality and Creator-ship of it, as expressed BY our point of view, then we’re coming from a perspective in our mind’s of a “victim”.
Exposed?
To Whom?
To Those of Us who could not see before.
To Those of Us who could see, Geoff is, as he’s always been. Just like G.W. Bush, is now seen, as he’s always been. The only thing that has changed, is that those of us who were fooled before, aren’t being fooled any longer.
The ONLY thing that has changed, is that those of Us who could NOT see, now see a little bit more.
Enlightenment always comes with disillusionment.
Choice A: Celebrate Awakening and Empowerment for now the Blind can see!
Choice B: Express Betrayal
A lot of times we have to express the pain of Choice B, before we get to the realization and recognition of Choice A.
Choices were made. Address why those choices were made by those who made them.
Take responsibility for choice.
As any and all Sovereigns, do.
November 2nd, 2009 - 10:51 am
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